Gatr22 wrote: cflames3412 wrote: Gatr22 wrote: Gatr22 wrote: cflames3412 wrote: Whoa there I said Johnny football was a lost cause when did I say Hof potential/potential all pro? Johnny hockey on the other hand is Hof guarantee Right here: cflames3412 wrote: manziel fell into a solid situation somewhat. the browns have one of the most solid o lines in the nfl. but, josh gordon will likely screw himself out of the league like justin blackmon. gordon should, thats right SHOULD be suspended for the year. him and blackmon have failed the same amount of drug tests. if manziel can turn into a pocket passer, which is what the browns need considering the beast o line, he can turn into a hall of famer. if he continues to scramble around and not make bad receivers look good, well his career will be just as long as mr tebow To even mention Manziel and hall of fame in the same paragraph is just down right embarrassing. I predicted that train wreck based on his work ethics and party habits immediately. KEYWORD IF key point: THAT YOU WOULD MENTION IT AT ALL........He didn't, not make it due to 'continuing to scramble around', like you mentioned. He didn't make it because of his piss poor work ethic and propensity to party whenever

if any players works to improve their onfield play they will be good

Gatr22 wrote: cflames3412 wrote: Gatr22 wrote: cflames3412 wrote: Gatr22 wrote: Gatr22 wrote: cflames3412 wrote: Whoa there I said Johnny football was a lost cause when did I say Hof potential/potential all pro? Johnny hockey on the other hand is Hof guarantee Right here: cflames3412 wrote: manziel fell into a solid situation somewhat. the browns have one of the most solid o lines in the nfl. but, josh gordon will likely screw himself out of the league like justin blackmon. gordon should, thats right SHOULD be suspended for the year. him and blackmon have failed the same amount of drug tests. if manziel can turn into a pocket passer, which is what the browns need considering the beast o line, he can turn into a hall of famer. if he continues to scramble around and not make bad receivers look good, well his career will be just as long as mr tebow To even mention Manziel and hall of fame in the same paragraph is just down right embarrassing. I predicted that train wreck based on his work ethics and party habits immediately. KEYWORD IF key point: THAT YOU WOULD MENTION IT AT ALL........He didn't, not make it due to 'continuing to scramble around', like you mentioned. He didn't make it because of his piss poor work ethic and propensity to party whenever if any players works to improve their onfield play they will be good So by that logic, if all players work to improve their on-field play, they will all be hall of famers? Because you didn't say he would be good, you said he would be a hall of famer if he just learned how to be a pocket passer. The entire sporting world is a huge sifting process. Some players can work as hard as they want and never be good. Others are as gifted as can be and don't work hardly at all at it. But I will agree hard work is generally a good sign..........something J-football has never really done much of. By the way, Brandon Jacobs called me this afternoon and wanted me to let you know that he accepted your apology.........it's all good

i come from hockey where hall of fame is much easier to get into need to remember that football has all pro in between not straight to hall of fame

Kagemusha wrote: In fairness to cflames, everybody misses predictions like that. Everybody. It was a light hearted statement that said more about the surroundings than Manziel talent (meaning that he had a decent team around9 Plus Manziel problems were a little more than poor work ethic. The guy is not just a lazy fat bastard in the Jamarcus Russell mold, he has serious problems and could very well not live to 30 if he cant make something. These are badass demons he has to fight. Imagine Zeke Elliott has a freak accident and loses both legs: can he continue playing? of course not, but that doesnt mean people who said he had the talent to be a very good player is an idiot.

Look, flames said it and he just needed to own it, which he did already. A far cry from a few posts ago, where he didn't even remember saying it to begin with! I didn't realize you were now flames spokesperson? I'm sure he can speak for himself, which he has, which also kind of calls into question why you are trying to now be the authority on what he meant at all?

Your next paragraph only reiterated what I said in a post about 2 years ago, calling into question both his work ethic and predisposition to party too much. So I'm not sure your point here at all, other than I kind of nailed the prediction. You're right everybody misses predictions, some more than others, but I brought it up to show that my evaluations of players are more than just bluster and guessing. This gets back to the credibility of my evaluation of the Miami draft and also Henry as a player. I have clearly evaluated the first 3 picks from the Miami draft and also Henry, that got put into the conversation along the way. I have also agreed to disagree with you and see how the season goes, then we can review all of our 'predictions'. You seem to be content on keeping the difference of opinions going.

Lastly, your analogy of 'Zeke' and insinuation that I called anyone an 'idiot' is just wrong. Manziel didn't suffer a freak loss of limbs, he made a choice (a long time ago) that he was the MAN and could do as he likes and continues to do so at his own peril. Also, I have not called flames or anyone else an idiot. I rather enjoy flames and all he brings to the game and conversations. You too, for that matter. A year from now, if I'm wrong on my analysis, I will own it and move on. It's really that simple and you are free to have your own opinions of course.

Compulsive tendencies and addiction impulses are forms of mental illness, so the "choice" that you seem to think he made may not be a rational one. On the surface to the likes of you, and of course the media, it looks like he just likes to go and party, but there is no say how in control of his mental faculties he actually is with regards to his hierarchy of social needs/desires.

Some people who go out partying a lot are just douche bags but the inability to control it when your career, finances and the rest of your professional life are on the line indicate something isn't quite right, so maybe judge the guy a bit less and hope he gets some help.

Kagemusha wrote: Gatr22 wrote: Look, flames said it and he just needed to own it, which he did already. A far cry from a few posts ago, where he didn't even remember saying it to begin with! I didn't realize you were now flames spokesperson? I'm sure he can speak for himself, which he has, which also kind of calls into question why you are trying to now be the authority on what he meant at all? Your next paragraph only reiterated what I said in a post about 2 years ago, calling into question both his work ethic and predisposition to party too much. So I'm not sure your point here at all, other than I kind of nailed the prediction. You're right everybody misses predictions, some more than others, but I brought it up to show that my evaluations of players are more than just bluster and guessing. This gets back to the credibility of my evaluation of the Miami draft and also Henry as a player. I don't see how your credibility might be affected by someone else's erroneus predictions. It seems you want to diminish others to elevate you. I'm nobody's advocate and I honestly dont care if flames can defend hisself. I just participate in discussion, as well as you do. You have been slapping around his "missed evaluation" for a couple of pages with multiple posts and that's annoying, frankly. My opinion of course You can have another. You can have the opinion the earth is flat. It's an opinion. You are entitled to it.

You are missing something, my credibility was shored up by my 3 predictions about Manziel, Bortles and Bridgewater. My comments toward flames had nothing to do with my credibility, rather it was him questioning mine.
I don't intend to diminish your opinion or his, only that mine differs from both of yours, just to have fun with the entire conversation. It's just hard to differentiate in the forums between having fun and coming off as tart.
I have been 'slapping around', as you put it, pretty much all the Miami fans opinions with pretty much all of my posts on here, because it's fun to see another team lost with their 'sometimes good' QB and poor draft classes. They will go no better than 8-8 and frankly I will be more entertained by who does worse, Cutler or Tannebomb. I can totally relate being a Bears fan! But as I said before, I have nothing personal against any of you, just calling it the way I see it.
Your analogies crack me up. Having an opinion on whether an athlete will succeed or not is not even in the same conversation with applied physics and known facts, such as whether the earth is flat. An opinion of this nature would be silly. Please keep them coming as they provide a good chuckle. I will get back to you after next season on both Henry and the 3 incredible draft choices by Miami, so cheer up while I exit this thread for a bit