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Miami Dolphins Thread
Forum index >> Real football >> Miami Dolphins Thread Goto page : 1, 2, 3 ... 42, 43, 44 ... 103, 104, 105
 
Gatr22GI Supporter
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Posted on 2016-05-16 21:19:46
cflames3412 wrote:

Gatr22 wrote:

Kagemusha wrote:

projectrracing wrote:

Kagemusha wrote:

Project I remind you the only scheme fit Miami went after is the second round CB. They drafted always their best players available and ignored needs.

If that were true. Then Derrick Henry would be on the team. Go back 2-3 pages of conversation and see were the current line of conversation started from. Best available vs scheme.



Only need pick was the 2nd rounder, the cb. Henry went before our 3rd rounder where we picked the rb.
Btw best player status for henry at that point is at least debatable and personallly I think Henry has a very good chance of being a bust, like many fellow heisman winners



You are correct there are many busts, but there are also many great legends. Curious why you would suggest Henry might be a bust? Drake was the injury prone back in college with a broken leg and broken arm. Plus, Henry can be an every down back if he proves his receiving abilities. He certainly had the carries in the tough SEC to prove his worth. I see your point if he wasn't available, but I think Henry is a great pick up in the 2nd round and if you can snag a Heisman Trophy winner that deep, then it's a no brainer. Who do you think was better than Henry? Maybe Fournette out of LSU, but he will likely go next season and Henry had the better match up when they played last season and it wasn't even close. Fournette finished with 19 carries for 31 yards, while Henry finished with 38 carries for 210 yards and 3 TDs. That game sealed my impression of Henry in big games



Everyone talked about Henry not being able to beat defenders in the open field, he is a guy that will just throw himself at the defenders instead of juking around them. After watching some tape I agreed with that, also drake averaged 7 yards per touch in college.



You might want to look at a bit more tape on Henry. He is big and he is fast and he will run over people, but more elusive than say a Fournette (who literally will try to run over defenders rather than go around them). Drake did not average 7 yards per carry (Drake 5.3, Henry 5.6). This past season Drake had 77 carries for 408 yards and 1 TD and his long run was 58 yards. Henry had 395 carries for 2219 yards and 28 TDs and his long run was 74 yards. Interestingly enough Drake is thought to be quicker, but Henry is believed to be faster at top speed. This is highlighted when you review those two long runs for the season. Henry busted 74 yards for a TD, while Drake was chased down on his 58 yard run and stopped short. I'm not railing on Drake, but it's no comparison to anyone that watched them both more than on just clips. Henry proved his value in likely being able to hold up to the NFL schedule, while Drake has a lot of questions there. Injured several times while serving back up duty in college and never even over 100 carries in one collegiate season. We'll have to see if he can ever be more than a 3rd down back in the NFL, but for some reason, that coach at Alabama went with one over the other and behind their pretty good o-line, Henry checked out with a better average per touch, when arguably, Drake got more in mop up time and still had a lower average. Great stuff, keep arguing why Drake was a better choice than Henry....when what you really meant was Henry was gone, otherwise they clearly should have picked him
  

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projectrracing
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Posted on 2016-05-17 0:05:33
I see it a little differently than Gatr22. I saw them take a third round CB in the second and a third round RB in the third. They could have had a second round RB in the second and a third round CB in the third.

Both were positions of need. And CB was probably moreso. But they overpaid on that pick and missed the chance of a very good RB.

They could have had a very good RB and a mediocre CB, but they picked and got both mediocre RB and CB drafting the way they did.

Dunno why I'm explaining this again? They went scheme fit, not best available.
  
cflames3412
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Posted on 2016-05-17 0:16:36
I don't think there was a single analyst who had Howard falling to the third round
  
Gatr22GI Supporter
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Posted on 2016-05-17 2:39:59
projectrracing wrote:

I see it a little differently than Gatr22. I saw them take a third round CB in the second and a third round RB in the third. They could have had a second round RB in the second and a third round CB in the third.

Both were positions of need. And CB was probably moreso. But they overpaid on that pick and missed the chance of a very good RB.

They could have had a very good RB and a mediocre CB, but they picked and got both mediocre RB and CB drafting the way they did.

Dunno why I'm explaining this again? They went scheme fit, not best available.



All good points, probably where the draft is considered, your view is much more on point than mine. I'm simply astonished anyone can make the argument that Drake is basically a better fit, all other things equal, for any team with some sort of RB needs. If Henry was available in the 2nd round for virtually any team that had a need for a RB1 in the draft, short of the Cowboys pick, it was a mistake to pass him up........of course in my humble opinion
  

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paulo187
Posts: 4937
Posted on 2016-05-17 10:23:22
cflames3412 wrote:

I don't think there was a single analyst who had Howard falling to the third round



I don't think there was a single analyst who had Tunsil going 13th or Jack going in round 2 either, but unexpected things happen in the draft.
  
Kagemusha
Posts: 2545
Posted on 2016-05-17 10:25:48
Howard was a prospect projected between late first and early third. Henry was projected between late first and early third, probably on average he was projected a little higher.

It's entirely possible that Howard was higher than Henry on the Dolphins big board.

Cornerback was (and still is) a bigger need for two reasons: 1. we lack 2 good starters (boundary and nickel) 2. it's proven that you can have efficient running game in the NFL without elite backs, while bad CB are always exposed because they play more in isolation.

It's not a dramatic situation like the Jets drafting Hackenberg when there were a lot of better graded prospects. Had they drafted Howard in the first round I would agree that they reached passing better players for a scheme fit.

On Henry: Cook and Fournette are better athletes. McCaffrey is a better athlete and overall back too, even though he might end up playing WR in the NFL. Especially Cook is head and shoulders above. In the LSU-Bama matchup Bama dominated the line of scrimmage, the Fournette stats line tells more about that than about his ability as a runner (but I'm not sold on Fournette as well).
Henry has some long speed but cant change direction, isn't a good receiver (will probably be able to run only a couple of routes) and will get stuck in the box. If he reaches the open field and builds speed he is very dangerous but he wont reach the open field often in the NFL.
Drake is a lesser player overall but he is better at doing some things, if they use his talents well he will be a good contributor. Think about Darren Sproles, he isnt an everydown back but has a place and a value in the NFL anyway.
  
Whammy Business
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Posted on 2016-05-17 19:17:32
Drake also had about a third of the carries Henry had in his career. Henry carried the ball almost 400 times last season alone. That rookie wall is waiting for him.
  
Gatr22GI Supporter
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Posted on 2016-05-17 19:36:33
Drake is not a Sproles and even if he is, that just means he will show up every now and then. Not every down, not every week, just sometimes he will look really really good. The comparisons are based on sheer hope at this point. Drake is often injured, used as a back up and untested in terms of ability to handle any substantial work load. My prediction is he will be used sparingly, much more likely on special teams and be injured by the mid-point of the season. Miami needs a big time running back
  

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Whammy Business
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Posted on 2016-05-17 21:04:02
I don't think anybody needs a big-time running back. It's the most devalued position in the NFL. There's a reason there have only been a combined six running backs selected in the first round of the last five NFL drafts.

The idea you need a bell cow at running back to be successful or even competitive in the NFL is archaic and not at all in line with what's actually going on in today's game. Below are the leading rushers for the last 10 Super Bowl winners and their rushing totals:

Broncos - Hillman, 863
Patriots - Gray, 412
Seahawks - Lynch, 1,257
Ravens - Rice, 1,143
Giants - Bradshaw, 659
Packers - Jackson, 703
Saints - Thomas, 793
Steelers - Parker, 791
Giants - Jackson, 1,009
Colts - Addai, 1,081

That's a whole bunch of average.

  
Gatr22GI Supporter
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Posted on 2016-05-17 22:23:28
Whammy Business wrote:

I don't think anybody needs a big-time running back. It's the most devalued position in the NFL. There's a reason there have only been a combined six running backs selected in the first round of the last five NFL drafts.

The idea you need a bell cow at running back to be successful or even competitive in the NFL is archaic and not at all in line with what's actually going on in today's game. Below are the leading rushers for the last 10 Super Bowl winners and their rushing totals:

Broncos - Hillman, 863
Patriots - Gray, 412
Seahawks - Lynch, 1,257
Ravens - Rice, 1,143
Giants - Bradshaw, 659
Packers - Jackson, 703
Saints - Thomas, 793
Steelers - Parker, 791
Giants - Jackson, 1,009
Colts - Addai, 1,081

That's a whole bunch of average.



I guess I'm archaic then, but I'd take a big back like Henry still..........so good point. I don't feel like doing the research, but some of those teams from memory shared back duties, which is more and more popular. How many yards did CJ get with Denver last year? I know he was big in the Super Bowl
  

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