PackAttack wrote: buckeye1022 wrote: PackAttack wrote: Brady is overrated, he didn't start putting up good numbers until Moss and Welker came to town... Remember the outstanding seasons Culpepper was putting up with Moss? Yeah...Brady is overrated. I've got to completely disagree there, as much as it pains me to say it. I can't bring myself to come close to rooting for a former Michigan QB, but Brady had some great years with no names at WR. 2002- 3764 yards, 28 TD's 2003- 3620 yards, 23 TD's 2004- 3692 yards, 28 TD's 2005- 4110 yards, 26 TD's 2006- 3529 yards, 24 TD's Those are GREAT years for any QB, especially with the WR's he had to work with. Yes, he got better with Moss and Welker. Anyone would. But he went from great to out of this world at that point. I'm fine with not putting him at number 2 for now because of injury concerns. But I just personally can't call him overrated. I understand his past and know he is a very good QB. It's just that some fans are now preaching that he's one of the best ever which is a bit overrated for my taste. I believe if you put Moss and Welker on a team with Brees or Manning and you're likely going to surpass Brady's performances.

Ok, gotcha. Very possible. If for no other reason than the Indy and New Orleans offenses are designed to throw the ball all over the field, I agree with you. Doesn't necessarily make either a better QB, but it doesn't mean that they aren't either.

Stats can be skewed, but I agree that Brady isn't the god that some make him out to be.

Yes, Indy will run the ball. But that offense is still pass first. Granted, it's not like Arizona's offense, but they still win the game by passing. I actually think that Indy and New Orleans are very similar on offense, and the Saints may have the better running game when McAllister is healthy.

But I do agree about Brady and Brees both. There is no one better at not forcing passes than Brady. Even Manning when pressured forces too many passes. Brees puts up great numbers, but until last year was an inconsistent QB who was never looked at as one of the top 5 in the league. I don't see how one great year changed that, especially since the Saints last year were forced to pass all the time. That's what happens when you have no defense and your running back is hurt.

Interesting thought I just had but I recently realized that I tend to lean towards QBs that have played well on different teams and in different systems. I think that's probably why I gave Warner and Brees the edge with Favre likely getting a better look from me than most. With Warner you could argue he had great WRs, but with guys like Brady and Manning, you could argue it is their systems that make them great.

I mean Brady and Manning have never played in a system other than their own so they haven't had a chance to show adaptability. I don't doubt that they likely could, they just haven't. I've never been a fan of Manning personally, I'm not sure why but he has definitely had some impressive seasons. But to argue that Warner was good only because of his WRs and Manning wasn't is absurd. Without Harrison, Manning doesn't even have that great a career. And as mentioned Brady has performed better than Manning on average even in years where he didn't have a great WR core. Manning is good but I wouldn't put him at the top of the list in any category. He's not the best of the oldies or the young guns.

Another interesting bit of info I dug up was the NFL QB challenge. Only two current QBs that are likely to start have ever won it, those being Matt Hasselbeck and Jake Delhomme. Take that with a grain of salt though since not everyone comes and since it hasn't been held since 07.

Also, does that mean Joe Montana is no good because he threw the ball to Jerry Rice and Roger Craig? What about Dan Fouts, wait he can't be good because he threw the ball to Charlie Joiner and Kellen Winslow! What about Elway? Wait, hold on, he threw the ball to Shannon Sharpe and Rod Smith so yeah he really was not that good, it was just his system. Give me a break people! Some of you really don't watch football. They still have to make the throws to the people even if they are covered or getting knocked on their butts.

megatronisabeast wrote: Manning's not among the best?

Keep in mind that the this thread is about the best CURRENT QB not the best all-time. Manning deserves his place in the HoF, I agree. But I'll go out on a limb and say that Manning will not be one of the top 3 QBs in the league this year in fantasy scoring, passing TDs, or passing yards. That's what I meant. He will not be the best this year (even with his light schedule in 09)