SrednaD wrote: Administrator wrote: SrednaD wrote: Administrator wrote: shmertnickname wrote: smells fishy Do explain how, please. All the data was sent to buy-out group well before this bug occurred (again, bug occured when the game was switching servers). A couple of months before actually. The price was set then, it was based on the data that was available then (not on "how many users there will be if and when the buy-out community actually decides to go for it" ). Also it was said well in advance that the price will rise for xxxxx amount if the owner will need to pay and take care of the server switch. The owner then waited for months without any feedback from the buy-out initiative. There wasn't even any progress report (apart from few PM's with Ewout). The guys didn't even inform the supporters among the users. So, please do tell, what could the owner gain from this? We are all ears (eyes) here. Because we all here are sick and tired of these accusations regarding the buy out. First, the owner was to blame (after waiting for half a year for anyone to actually do something), and now there will be "scam" accusations as well? So, come on. Explain what the owner could gain from this (then or now), or forever hold your piss (yes, piss, not peace). Jesus, the nerves on some people. A great deal of the calculations for the future economy of the buy-out was based on scraping data for active users. If the 'bug' was present at the scraping of those numbers, it is clear that the buy-out's calculations for expected profit was based on wrong data. That would have been a killer for any buy-out as funds where needed to develop the game and try to upgrade / fix this game. I am so happy to have had productive conversations with the buy-out team and SOOOO happy that no money was transfered. *phew* Some people wrote: Jesus, the nerves on some people. It depends on when your projections were made. Again, the bug appeared with the new server. And, if it would be requested, owner would give you the updated numbers (based on login dates not the buggy numbers) - ask Ewout that was communicating with him. He never give you guys any troubles with giving information. He wouldn't drop the price (as it wasn't really his fault this dragged out for half a year was it?), but he would give you the numbers. Anything else? Edit: And if you already scrapped the data using the "last login" date, you had no problem and correct numbers. There was and is not any bug with "last login" dates. Only with closing the clubs down. The new server was installed on or around about the 20th of September 2023. At that time, we where still crunching numbers for the buy-out. The buy-out community threw the towel in the ring shortly after. Could you please post the the correct number of active players? PLayers that would not be set as inactive if the script was executing correctly. The buy-out community worked on these numbers: Active managers: appr. 500 (including supporters, ultimate supporters and should-be closed teams) Supporters: appr. 100 Ultimate supporters: appr. 85

500 was close enough at the server switch for sure (I remember the number being actually a bit higher, I think 530-ish then).

I can ask the owner for permission to tell you the current numbers directly from database. Though, what good would that do to you?
Anyway, if you really want I can ask him.

Now for the questions to you (as a member of the buy-out initiative).
Why did you guys need almost half a year to crunch numbers for a business priced lower than a years' wage for 1 person (multi million take overs don't take that much time)?
Why did you (basically) disappear after getting the data and didn't update the owner about the initiative?
And most importantly, why didn't you at least update the supporting users that were even offering to "chip in" with the money on these same forums (there are still posts asking for updates from you guys here)?

Also, you are saying you guys pulled the plug after the new server. Why didn't you inform the owner?
We all know that the buy-out collapsed because the deadline that owner set (because of your silence on the matter) passed.
Owner never had any idea about you guys pulling the plug.

If we are talking about this, let's go all in and put our cards on the table.
Given that some of the players are now accusing us of not only being the ones to blame for this, but also for trying to scam the initiative.

To put it shortly.
We (owner with us admins and friends helping him) were very serious about the initiative.
Terms were known and there were no scams planned (you seriously think any of us would risk criminal investigation for the "pocket money" we were discussing?).

Now, as for the initiative seriousness. Please answer the questions above.

shmertnickname wrote: haha

Thoughtful and constructive post, as per usual.
And then you are joking about me "deleting these posts".

Nah, I will let it stay this time.
Because, it actually says a lot.

It would be great if the admin(s) could just put the same energy into improving the game as they put into correcting their own users.

Administrator wrote: hoospack wrote: I'm surprised more people haven't taken notice of this. Especially given the fact that the "inactivity bug" potentially occurred during negotiations for community buy-out of the game..... This bug was aknowledged awhile ago and happened when we moved servers. It will be fixed, but it's not a priority, as the owner, again, is in bad health (took the turn for the worse at the end of the year). And don't even go into the "happened during negotiations" teritory. All accounts have "last login" data and as you noticed this wasn't ever tempered with. And if it was, it would be more than obvious the minute the community would have access to the database. Even better - anyone can go and count the active users by hand or by scrapping the data, if anyone would want to have a correct data. Owner gave all the data the interested parties wanted (financial, active users, even pieces of source code for the project...). And all the data was 100% correct, current and honest. So, again, please, don't even go there. Thank you!

Nice to hear from you Admin.
I am sorry but I do not understand the extreme defensiveness in response to my original post. We (as a community of customers) identified a problem and explained the timing that the problem appeared to have occurred. You said that the problem is "well known" and you could have been simply left it at that. Neither Radu nor myself knew about this problem, so perhaps it was not "well known". We (as community members) were simply trying to point out a problem within the game in hopes of making it better.

Also, I was not involved in that "community buyout" process. I said the bug "potentially" occurred during that time period. I said nothing else beyond that. I never said it did occur, I merely said it "potentially" started during that time period, which is a true statement. Nothing in this thread said by Radu or me deserved anything defensive. I am sure you can understand how this situation could be perceived negatively.

This could have easily been addressed by you (the Admin) with a simple statement of "we are aware of this problem that was caused by the server move which had nothing to do with the buy-out project".
Last edited on 2024-01-12 at 18:15

Administrator wrote: hoospack wrote: Administrator wrote: hoospack wrote: I'm surprised more people haven't taken notice of this. Especially given the fact that the "inactivity bug" potentially occurred during negotiations for community buy-out of the game..... This bug was aknowledged awhile ago and happened when we moved servers. It will be fixed, but it's not a priority, as the owner, again, is in bad health (took the turn for the worse at the end of the year). And don't even go into the "happened during negotiations" teritory. All accounts have "last login" data and as you noticed this wasn't ever tempered with. And if it was, it would be more than obvious the minute the community would have access to the database. Even better - anyone can go and count the active users by hand or by scrapping the data, if anyone would want to have a correct data. Owner gave all the data the interested parties wanted (financial, active users, even pieces of source code for the project...). And all the data was 100% correct, current and honest. So, again, please, don't even go there. Thank you! Nice to hear from you Admin. I am sorry but I do not understand the extreme defensiveness here. We (as a community of customers) identified a problem and explained the timing that the problem appeared to have occurred. You said that the problem is "well known" and you could have been simply left it at that. Neither Radu nor myself knew about this problem, so perhaps it was not "well known". We (as community members) were simply trying to point out a problem within the game in hopes of making it better. Also, I was not involved in that "community buyout" process. I said the bug "potentially" occurred during that process. I said nothing else beyond that. I never said it did occur, I merely said it "potentially" started during that time period, which is a true statement. Nothing in this thread said by Radu or me deserved anything defensive. This could have easily been addressed by you (the Admin) with a simple statement of "we are aware of this problem that was caused by the server move which had nothing to do with the buy-out project". Read the whole page or two please. The issue is the fact that we have been accused of trying to scam the buy-out initiative (with this bug). And when such accusations happen, we will respond. We can "swallow" many posts, but the scam accusations are not in that category.

I was referring to my original post that you replied to. I never accused anyone of anything. I simply pointed out the timing that the bug occurred. I was not involved in the buy out project, so therefore I cannot comment on that. All I said was that it "potentially" started during that period. I never said it definitely occurred, I said "potentially".

I understand the defensiveness when it comes to accusations of "scamming" people. But I merely pointed out that the bug appeared to begin in September during that time period, which is something that may or may not be of interest to those who were involved in that process.

EDIT: Also, I have no control over what others say or do. Now you are blaming me for the actions of others who are saying "haha" or "scam"? You are blaming me for simply pointing out what appears to be a confirmed fact (that the bug began in September during the buy-out project). This is not a professional approach.