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A guide to training
 
Hard-core fan (ultimate supporter owner)PHI 21GI Supporter
Posts: 3004
Joined: 2009-03-18
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Posted on 2019-03-01 17:52:50
I know this has been touched on several times before, but the threads are way back on other pages now and without a forum search, new teams will have a hard time finding it. And I've noticed teams training their players hard, especially some new teams, so I thought it would be a good idea to explain/remind how training works and the effects of adjusting training.

Skill Point - skill points are the numbers you see on your player's profile. They range from 1 to 20. Supporters have the option to see that these skill points actually have decimal values. For example, a Strength value may be 15.73. These decimal values only go two places (hundredths). To the best of our knowledge, games don't take the decimal value into consideration where deciding how good or bad a player does in the game. The strength 15.73 will only count as a 15 for game purposes. (NOTE: This is an assumption as the developers have not let us in on exactly how the numbers are configured.)

Training Points - training points are the amount of points added to each skill when training. They are essentially 1/100th of a skill point. So you will need to train enough to add 100 training points (or less depending on the decimal value of the skill point) to the same skill before that skill will increase to the next full skill point. In the example above, 27 training points would need to be added to strength to increase it to 16.


How to train - The Help/FAQ at the bottom of the page has a training section that explains the training pretty good. Be sure to read that, then if you have any question, maybe the rest of this post will help clarify.

How training points are determined.
-Each training session a player gets 8-12 training points randomly determined.
-The player's teamwork value is divided by 2, rounded up and added to this value.
-The team's coaching value (1-20) is added to this number. The value used is dependent on what area the player is being trained in. If you have a coach value of 20 in fitness and 1 in defending, the player will get 20 points if you train in fitness but 1 point if you train in defending. Even new teams have a coach value of 1 in all skills.
-Each player gets bonus points for training hall or fitness center (not both). Training Hall gives bonus points depending on if it's built and how many expansions are built. Fitness Center increases the point total by a percentage base on if it's built and how many expansions. Fitness center is applied if the player is training in a fitness skill. Training Hall is applied if a player is training in any other skill area besides fitness.
-The age of the player can affect training as well. Players 28 and older lose a percentage of their training points. Players 31 and older get no training points and actually lose training points from their fitness skills (skills start lowering). Skills will not fall below 12.
-Bonus points are added/subtracted based on training intensity. (With energy penalties applied where necessary).
-A percentage of training points are lost if you set gain or lose more than 5 lbs. in nutrition center.


How training points are distributed.
-Focus trained or All trained will make a difference on how points are distributed.
-The number of skills in the area being trained will determine the percentage of points being distributed to each.
-All skills in a training area will get training points, even if you focus train. Most points will go towards the focus trained skill, but some will still go towards the other skills, even if those other skills are capped.
-If you focus train, the player loses 10% of his training points.
-For details the percentages for distribution, check the Help/FAQ [Training] page below.


Examples.

I'll use one of my players as an example.
I have a fully upgraded training hall and fitness center.
I have full coaches with 20 in all skill areas.
The player is under 28 and has a 9 for teamwork. Normal training and 5 or less movement in nutrition center.


Training points for this player training Defending-All
8-12 (10 plus or minus 2) randomly determined.
5 for teamwork
20 for coaches
20 for training hall

55 plus or minus 2 is the total training points each week. For ease, we'll split the middle and say 55 pts.
28 pts will go towards one of the three skills in defending selected randomly.
19 pts will go towards one of the remaining two skills in defending selected randomly.
8 pts will go towards the last of the three skills in defending.

If I focus trained on defending-agility for this same player.
41 pts will go towards Agility
6 pts will go towards one of the remaining two skills in defending selected randomly.
3 pts will go towards the last of the three skill in defending.
5 pts are lost.


Now lets say that I decide to increase the training intensity for this player.
Maximum training intensity adds 6 training pts. You lose 5 to 10 percentage points of energy each time.
So now the player has 61 pts to distribute.
non-focus training

31 pts will go towards one of the three skills in defending selected randomly.
21 pts will go towards one of the remaining two skills in defending selected randomly.
9 pts will go towards the last of the three skills in defending.

A small increase to each skill. 3-2-1 from top to bottom. This means that I would need to train at maximum 34 times to gain enough extra training points to increase the skill 1 skill point, and that's provided that it randomly selects the same skill each time. In the mean time, my player has died due to -170% to -340% energy. OK, the player won't die, but at around 50% energy, the player can't train and will automatically rest which means I will lose the 55 training points for that week. In a best case scenario where I only lose 5% each week, I will gain a maximum possible 60 extra points for this extra training. After the rest week, I've got a grand total bonus of 5 extra training points and months of regular training before the player is playing normal in the games again.
And yes, if your player's energy is low, they will play badly, so you've almost increased one skill by 1 point, but you've reduced all skills by nearly half for game day purposes.

If I had beginning coaches and no training facilities I would be adding 6 pts to 15 pts plus or minus 2 that would then be distributed among the three defending skills.
15 pts to 21 pt total
8 pts to 11 pts to first skill
5 pts to 7 pts to second skill
2 pts to 3 pts to last skill


I'm not even going to go into any other examples. There is a very slight chance that you might come out ahead on training points by increasing training intensity. But you will pay for it in other ways and for a long time.

I can see someone increasing training intensity for one week maybe once or twice a season, but again, the benefits are going to be so minor as to not be worth it in my opinion.



  
linkleo911
Posts: 1831
Posted on 2019-03-01 18:23:26
Another reminder for new managers: DO NOT TRAIN STAMINA TO LEVEL 20!

Brazil NT will thank you all very much if you do so.
  
brandon5
Posts: 9
Joined: 2016-02-17
Posted on 2019-03-01 22:17:05
So is it best to just train players on average training with maximum training staff and training facilities

does training like this give the best and quickest results?

And why is it not a good idea to train stamina to 20 please?

  
linkleo911
Posts: 1831
Posted on 2019-03-01 22:30:05
Due to a bug...
https://grid-iron.org/community/viewt/20423
  
brandon5
Posts: 9
Joined: 2016-02-17
Posted on 2019-03-01 22:47:35
Ok Thanks

And is it best to just train players on average training with maximum training staff and training facilities

does training like this give the best and quickest results?
  
Hard-core fan (ultimate supporter owner)PHI 21GI Supporter
Posts: 3004
Joined: 2009-03-18
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Posted on 2019-03-01 22:57:05
brandon5 wrote:

Ok Thanks

And is it best to just train players on average training with maximum training staff and training facilities

does training like this give the best and quickest results?




Maximum training may get you the points quicker, however your players will start playing very badly after just 2 or 3 weeks of max training. At this point, you could start losing to bots which will affect your form and thus your attendance (money).
Higher intensity training also increases the chances of injury (according to devs) and one injury cancels out all gains and then some. In my example above, if my player got injured while trying to train at max, not only does he not get the extra 6 pts, but he also doesn't get his normal 55 plus/minus 2 for that week. If his injury is bad enough that he's still recovering during the next training update, he loses those pts again. Two weeks of training lost is 110 training pts vs. trying to gain an additional 6 pts.

If you try to train at a lower intensity, you'll gain your energy back a bit quicker, but you also lose those pts you tried to gain with the max training.

It is possible to come out ahead when max training, but the odds are definitely against you in my opinion.

As always though, it is your team and you can do what you want. I just wanted to make newer managers aware of the risks.
  
Hard-core fan (ultimate supporter owner)PHI 21GI Supporter
Posts: 3004
Joined: 2009-03-18
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Hard-core fan (ultimate supporter owner)
Posted on 2019-03-01 22:59:38
linkleo911 wrote:

Due to a bug...
https://grid-iron.org/community/viewt/20423




Yea, the stamina bug was supposedly fixed a couple of years ago I think (or maybe it was the consistency bug), but I don't believe it in either case.
  
linkleo911
Posts: 1831
Posted on 2019-03-02 1:01:24
About maximum intensity training: I think it is only worth with youth pulls until a certain age. As they will not play any official game until 25 or 26 yo they apply for this training level. And it helps to find out the physical cap of young players.

About stamina 20 bug: I did not read about this bug being fixed. But I feel like it still affects the performance.
  
SrednaDGI Supporter
Posts: 4557
Joined: 2010-11-02
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Posted on 2019-03-02 9:41:14
I agree with PHI. There is absolutely no reason to train anything else than 'Average'. Yes, if you are lucky and avoid injuries, you can gain a point or two, but loosing energy will kill your players performance.

So how - as Linkeleo stated - using maximum intensity on youth players until they are ready to play an important game (by the way - most of my players hit the first team when they are 21, not 25). Not a good idea. You will be training Physicals most of the time, and getting to 19 or 20 in speed and strength is not as important after they implemented the nutrician center. Before, you would train until max in both. Now, you decide how you want to distribute the 35 points for speed and strength depending on caps. And I have players with sub 35 points combined that are doing quite well.

So what could you benefit from training maximum intensity? I evaluate my players based on a Greasemonkey script that was here some 4-5 years ago - quite simple and looks at 3-4 skills for each position and calculates a score between 0 and 100 which gives me a view on which position is best for the player.

If we take one of my better players - my OL/DL Erik Andersen{/playerid]. He is 23 years old and on the National Team. He has 16 speed and 19 strength. 19 in blocking / tackling / agiltiy and 15 footwork. Pretty decent and scores a 88-89 in my OL/DL calculations.

If I had trained him on maximum intensity since I pulled him as a youth 7 seasons ago, then according to PHI's calculations, I would have gained 3-2-1 points on the skills per week giving me a max of 3 x 19 x 7 = 3,99, 2 x 19 x 7 = 2,66 or 1 x 19 x 7 = 1.33 more skill points if he could train all weeks. Fact is, he would only be loosing on average 7,5 points of energy per week and thereby hitting 50 energy after 6,67 weeks, then resting for one week, then training one week and so on. Only giving him training every second week, so the max would then be (I'll only calculate this for the example of 3 points into the same skill every week which statisticly is as unlikely.)

So first 7 (6,67) weeks of MAX training yields 7 x 3 = 21 points.
Then the weeks 'on-off' training yields (((19 x 7) - 7) / 2 ) x 3 = 189 points.

A total of 210 points equaling 2,1 points in skill if all 3 extra points go to the same skill. 1,4 skill points for the second skill and 0,70 skill points for the third skill.

So, on average, each defensive skill would gain 1,40 skill points when the training bonus is equally distributed to the three skills.

Now, some one might see that I have NOT subtracted the weeks needed to cap the physical skills. If you pull a 15/15 youth, it would take on average 750 training points divided by (31+21+9) training points per week, weeks to gain 7,5 skill points (you would need 5 in speed / strenght, but 33% would go to stamina. Therefore 7,5 and not 5 skill points needed).

750 / (31+21+9) = 12,29 weeks of training.

So we need to remove 12,29 weeks of training from the equation above and we can see that the 12,29 weeks of physical training would remove the first 6,67 weeks of training and then take a further 6 times 2 weeks of on-off training, so a total of 12 training weeks equaling 12 x 2,66 training points equaling 31,92 training points lost for the defending training.

So a total average of 1,40 - 0,3192 = 1,0808 skill points on average to the three defending skills.

Back to Erik Andersen. If I had trained him on maximum intensity, he could have 20/20/20 in tackling / blocking / agility or I could use extra weeks on footwork and have that skill at 17-18. That would give him a score of 93-94.

Nice increase, but he would be rubbish since he has 50 energy and could have been injured. It would take more or less a season to regain his energy and that is way too much for a 5,6% increase in my evaluation. I would have lost 19/(19*6) = 16,67% of weeks he could have played due to recovery and still not taking into effect the loss of weeks to (extra risk of) injury.

If this post is too long and you don't want to read it - just train average. Everyone loves average.
  

"Quarterbacks should wear a dress." - Jack Lambert

If you are ever feeling down, just know that neither of Dorfenschmirtz's parents showed up to his birth.

SrednaDGI Supporter
Posts: 4557
Joined: 2010-11-02
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Posted on 2019-03-02 9:42:01
Crap... missed a ['/playerid'] somewhere... sorry for that.
  

"Quarterbacks should wear a dress." - Jack Lambert

If you are ever feeling down, just know that neither of Dorfenschmirtz's parents showed up to his birth.

 
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